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Joy and its Thieves
We might find some answers in what thieves can’t steal.
John Ullmen
April 04, 2025
This week, let’s try to feel better, and learn how the best leaders cultivate joy at work. How do they help themselves and others avoid the emotional pitfalls that come from too much worry, fear, or misguided goals? We might find some answers in what thieves can’t steal.
Table of Contents
THE ULLMEN INSIGHT
A character in a John Updike book says, “I loved life so much, the thought of its ever ending canceled most of the joy I should have taken in it.”
Leaders should beware of such thieves of joy. Here are some others:
Fear of failure, fear of success, fear of mediocrity.
Changing too fast, changing too slowly, not changing.
Past mistakes, present distractions, future fears.
Thinking that joy is more important than it is.
Thinking about joy instead of enjoying it.
Missing the difference between seeking joy, and being joyful.
Forgetting how easy it is to feel it, not by getting it, but giving it.
Ironically, these joy-thieves don’t actually steal our joy, they trick us into grasping for what can’t be held.
Don’t fall for the fraud!
The best leaders know that deep, abiding joy transcends a temporary mood spike or quick hit of dopamine.
True joy flows freely from a curiosity-driven, sincere dedication to make things better. It is not to be sought, but perceived, welcomed and shared.
The best leaders understand: True joy is an ever-available companion, not a fleeting prize.
Authentic joy finds us naturally when we dedicate ourselves to use our gifts to create value for others.
The best leaders empower us together to make that happen. They help us enjoy our work and growth with each other as its own reward.
The best leaders’ teams are infused with joy without seeking it.
True joy is already here, ready to greet you, whenever you make life better, more beautiful, however you’re uniquely positioned to do so.
Authentic joy needn’t be chased and can’t be caught, but we can always enjoy our devotion to make things better, starting now.
That’s the Insight: Chasing joy? Let it catch you instead.
THE ULLMEN TRIO
John holds an imagined conversation on our theme with this week’s guests, Gilda Radner and Vin Scully.
Gilda Radner (1946–1989)
Gilda Radner, born in Detroit in 1946, gained fame as an original cast member of Saturday Night Live in 1975. Her characters, like Roseanne Roseannadanna, brought joy to millions. Even after her 1986 ovarian cancer diagnosis, she inspired others with her humor and grace until her death, turning struggles into laughter.
Vin Scully (1927–2022)
Vin Scully, born in the Bronx in 1927, was the voice of the Los Angeles Dodgers for 67 years. His poetic narration and humility transformed baseball into an art, earning him generations of fans. Despite personal losses, like his wife’s death in 1972, he focused on his craft. Scully passed in 2022, leaving a legacy of joy and legendary calls like, “It’s time for Dodger baseball!”
Left: Gilda Radner (1946–1989). Right: Vin Scully (1927–2022)
 | John Ullmen, Host |
John Ullmen: Gilda, Vin, thank you both for being here! Let’s start with the foundation: How important is it to you, as leaders, to help people actually enjoy their work and their growth? And how do you do that for yourself, especially when fear, self-doubt, or comparison start to creep in?
Gilda Radner:
For me, it’s always been about finding the funny, even when things aren't funny. When I started out at Second City in Toronto, I was TERRIFIED. I was surrounded by these comedy gods, you know, and I was just… little me, Gilda. But then I realized, the fear itself? That could be kind of funny too! The absurdity of being so worried about making people laugh that you can barely breathe? That's a sketch waiting to happen!
So I started to lean into the fear, to make it part of my performance. I’d be Roseanne Roseannadanna, and I’d start sweating and stammering even more than usual, and the audience would roar! Because they could see the realness of it, the vulnerability. And that’s when I understood – joy isn’t about avoiding the scary stuff, it’s about finding the giggle in the middle of it. It’s about making friends with your inner critic and telling her, “Hey, honey, you’re hilarious! Come join the party!” And suddenly, work becomes play. And helping others find that giggle? That’s the best encore of all.
Vin Scully:
Gilda, that’s beautifully put, the “giggle in the middle of it.” Reminds me of something Branch Rickey once told me about baseball, he said, “It’s a game, Vin, it’s meant to be enjoyed.” And he wasn’t just talking about the fans, he meant for everyone involved, from the batboy to the players to the announcers. And that really stuck with me.
For me, enjoying my work, and helping others enjoy theirs, has always come down to perspective. You know, in baseball, you’re going to have slumps. And it’s easy to get down on yourself, to dwell on the failures. But what I learned, and what I tried to convey to the listeners, was to appreciate the moment, the beauty of the game itself. The sunshine on the field, the roar of the crowd, the crack of the bat, even the silence before the pitch..
Because that's the thing, isn’t it? Whether it’s baseball or comedy or anything in life, it’s not just about the wins and losses, it’s about the story. And if you can find the joy in telling that story, in living that story, then even the tough times become part of something bigger…
Gilda Radner:
Vin, I love what you said about slumps – oh honey, do I know about slumps! Comedy slumps are the WORST! It’s like, suddenly, nothing’s funny. The gremlins in your brain start whispering, “See? You’re not funny anymore! You’re washed up! You should just go home and knit!”
But I learned, especially at SNL, that it’s never really about you. It’s about the audience, it’s about connecting with them. It’s about giving them a moment of release, a moment of laughter,. We’re trying to avoid sadness here!
So when I was in a slump, I'd try to shift my focus outward. I’d go into the audience during commercial breaks and…
 | You can read the FULL interview in detail, with more questions and fascinating answers from each week's Trio guests! Coming soon, we'll offer Premium Membership in the Ullmen Leadership Academy to access the full interviews and much more. We're enthused to provide you more levels of access, to meet what works best for you. Stay tuned! |
THE TRIO TAKEAWAYS
 | Engage the crowd using the “SNL Break Chat” technique to spark joy! Gilda beat comedy slumps by hopping into the SNL audience during commercial breaks, asking folks about their day, like “What’s making you nuts today?” and weaving their gripes into her next bit. One guy’s rant about a bad boss became a hoot-worthy improv line. Step off your stage, ask your team what’s on their minds, and their answers will recharge you and knit you tighter |
Appreciate with the “Camera Note” tool to lift spirits! Vin scribbled notes post-game, like “Great angle on that 3-2 pitch!” to a camera op after a 1980s nail-biter, or “Stats saved me!” to a number-cruncher, leaving them on desks at 1 a.m. Those scrawls lit him up too. Jot a “You nailed it” to a teammate or shout it in a huddle, and it’s a double-shot of joy. | Transform stage fright into the “Roseanne Stammer” method for instant connection! Gilda turned her Second City terror, knees knocking like castanets, into comedy gold as Roseanne Roseannadanna, sweating and stammering on stage until the audience roared at her realness. She’d exaggerate her shaky voice and wide-eyed panic, making fear a hilarious co-star. Next time nerves hit, channel that energy, shake it out loud, crack a self-aware quip, and let your team see the human behind the leader. |
Here are more titles of the takeaways I pulled from the extended conversation. I will make the full explanations of each one, and how to apply them, available separately…
Reframe slumps with the “1986 Game 6” approach to keep the story alive!
Vin called the Mets-Red Sox World Series Game 6 in 1986, bottom of the tenth, with the Sox one strike from victory, yet he focused on the electric Fenway air and the unfolding drama, not the looming loss. His voice…
Shift worry to the “Lasorda Positive” tool for a mood boost!
Vin leaned on Tommy Lasorda’s “Vinny, be positive!” mantra when replaying a broadcast in his head, like after a shaky call in a tight game, he’d focus on…
Improvise adversity with the “Goofy Hat” approach to defy the dark!
Gilda faced cancer by donning funny hats, like a floppy polka-dot one, and cracking up her nurses with lines like, “Does this match my IV drip?” in the chemo ward. Her silliness turned sterile rooms…
Explore with the “Groundskeeper Curiosity” method to turn work into wonder!
Vin’s announcing soared when he quizzed groundskeepers about turf quirks or fans about their wildest…
Unleash the “I Don’t Know” Disco Ball technique to ignite collaboration!
Gilda’s first TV special directing stint shone when she asked her crew, “How does …
Reveal your heart with the “1959 Note-Free” tool for raw magic!
Vin threw away his notes in a 1959 Dodgers thriller, final inning, bases loaded, and just let his…
Grow using the “67-Year Learner” approach to stay electric!
Vin kept his 67-year Dodgers gig fresh by devourin …
Embrace flops with the “Potted Plant” technique to build trust!
Gilda’s SNL sketch crash, tripping over furniture, toppling a plant, blanking on lines, became a cast laugh-in when Lorne Michaels dubbed it “spectacular,” clapping…
Celebrate with the “Wig Fail” Confetti Tool for daily wins!
Gilda turned a flop into fuel when Lorne praised her…
Gratitude-up with the “Rainy Night” method to fuel your fire!
Vin stayed jazzed for 67 seasons by thanking his luck on soggy…
Forgive flops with the “Anne’s Genius” approach to lighten the load!
Gilda bounced back from an SNL dud, muffed lines, flat crowd, when Anne Beatts said, “Gilda, you’re a…
Amplify wins with the “Hank Aaron Silence” technique to kill doubt!
Vin hushed up after Hank Aaron’s 1974 record homer, ball soaring, Atlanta erupting, letting 50 seconds of crowd thunder roll, no words needed. Fans felt…
Lighten up with the “Hallway Chorus” technique to cut the tension!
Gilda’s SNL hall-humming, think off-key “Sweet Caroline,” drew in a costume…
Final Thought:
Gilda and Vin hand you a playbook of guts, giggles, and gratitude, tools like the “Potted Plant” laugh or “67 Year Learner” approach to turn work into a wild, joyful ride. Grab these methods, remix them with your flair, and lead like it’s a live show, messy, real, and electric. You and your team are ready for the spotlight, so go make it memorable!
THE TRIPLE PLAY
Great leaders grow their understanding of people by exploring similarities, differences, and possibilities. Let’s practice this skill each week, with inspiration from our Trio guests.
1. COMPARE: Something they share.
Improvisation Was Their Superpower
Gilda Radner honed her comedic instincts in the legendary improvisational comedy troupe Second City, where thinking on your feet wasn’t just encouraged—it was survival. That background helped her develop some of SNL’s most iconic characters, like the hilariously confused Emily Litella and the lovably obnoxious Roseanne Roseannadanna. She had an uncanny ability to react in real time to her scene partners, the live audience, and even the unexpected—breaking character mid-sketch while still making it work.
Vin Scully, on the other hand, had no co-stars or laugh tracks—just a microphone, a scorecard, and millions of ears hanging on his every word. He improvised entire broadcasts, weaving together real-time play-by-play with stories about players’ childhoods, oddball facts, and poetic observations (“The impossible has happened!”). A sudden delay in the game? Vin would fill it effortlessly with a tale about Sandy Koufax’s humility or a bee swarming the outfield. He didn’t just call the game—he painted it, with spontaneous brilliance.
2. CONTRAST: Something they see differently.
Break the Fourth Wall—or Respect It?
One of the most beloved aspects of Gilda’s comedy was her willingness to “break,” i.e., to laugh mid-sketch, look directly into the camera, or let the audience in on the absurdity of what was happening. This became part of her charm. In characters like Roseanne Roseannadanna or Emily Litella, she often blurred the line between performance and performer, delighting in the shared experience of being a little out of control on live television. Gilda treated the audience like a roommate who had just walked into the weirdest party ever: “Come on in, you’ve got to see this!”
By contrast, Vin Scully was a master of the unseen narrator. In his six-plus decades as the voice of the Dodgers, he never called attention to himself, never broke character, because he was never supposed to be the character. His voice hovered just outside the frame, letting the story of the game unfold without interference. He saw himself as a steward of tradition, a respectful guest in the listener’s home. Breaking the fourth wall, for Vin, would have been a violation of trust. He was there to elevate the moment, not to become it.
Gilda thrived in the delightful mess of performance, often gleefully acknowledging that things weren’t going perfectly. Vin operated in a realm of grace and restraint, maintaining an atmosphere of quiet reverence. Gilda wanted you to know she was there; Vin wanted you to feel like you were.
3. CREATE: Something they might innovate.
To help us exercise our own leadership creativity, here we imagine the guests were alive today and joined forces to create something new.
I’ll share one of my favorites next week, and I welcome yours in the meantime!
Last week our guests were Princess Diana (1961-1997) and Fred Rogers (1928-2003), and this could be one of theirs:
 |
Invisible Crowns: A Documentary Series by Princess Diana & Fred Rogers
Tagline: “There is royalty all around us. You just have to look in the right direction.”
The Concept: Invisible Crowns is a multi-episode docuseries that spotlights people who lead without recognition, title, or power, but whose influence transforms the lives around them. Each episode profiles one such individual, telling their story with intimacy, reverence, and a sense of wonder.
There are no celebrities, CEOs, or influencers here—only people who embody what Fred might call “deep and simple,” and what Diana would have recognized as soul-level compassion.
Our mission is to make things better one leader at a time.
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Thanks for helping other growing leaders grow too!
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Until next week…
Let’s make things better,
John